Hey all..well..it had to come to this. I've been taking 8-10 Norcos an evening (from 6pm-2 or 3am) every day for about a year. (I worked up to that dose by the way..) I tried to taper, I tried to cold turkey, and none of those worked for ME. I thought I'd post my Suboxone treatment on here to give people hope, who may be trying to w/d (and quit) from hydro, to have a reference point. Remember, this is my experience only and your mileage will vary as they say.

Also, I'd like to add that I've done a TON of reading about Suboxone before I took the "plunge" and for the moment at least, I'm glad I did. I've read the "horror stories" about people saying it is indeed more difficult to w/d from Sub than hydro..and that may be the case, only time will tell, and again, my experience may differ from your own.

I went into the MD's office at 2pm last Thursday, in mild w/d and he sent me home with 15 8mg Suboxone tablets. His instructions were to take 1/2 or 4mg to start (at 6pm) and if that didn't work, take another 4mg. I took 4mg, still felt pretty crappy, so two hrs later I took 2mg (instead of the recommended 4mg) for a total of 6mg. Withdrawals were gone.

I've read of Drs telling their patients to take 8mg then another 8mg, however I didn't want to make an 80mg to 100mg hydro habit WORSE by bringing in a high sub dosage you know what I mean? From what I've read with Suboxone, LESS is MORE as I do not intend to be on the Suboxone as a maintenance dose.

Here is my current log and I’ll keep it updated as I believe if it works for me, it may work for others.

Friday, after not sleeping very much (not because of w/d, but as a side effect from the Sub.), and took 1/2 of an 8mg tablet: 4mg. Withdrawals are still gone, however there is a bit of anxiety happening at 5pm which is killed by .5mg of Xanax. I do not feel like I’m in withdrawals from hydro, it just feels NORMAL. Of course my dose of hydro wasn’t getting me “high” it was just a maintenance dose…to keep me from suffering withdrawals.

To date, after nearly a week, I take 4mg once daily, and feel fine. This is going to be my dose for the next 12 days or so, as it is sufficient to keep me feeling normal or like I’ve got 80-100mg of hydros in my system..ie: No W/D.

I wanted to mention that I had a follow up appointment with my Sub doctor, and unfortunately realized that although he began my treatment by stating that “Everyone’s dependence is different,” therefore I expected his “treatment” to be adjusted accordingly, that was NOT his plan. His plan was to keep me on Suboxone for months! Obviously he is in this for the money..and that is too bad, but I am the one paying HIM, so he will have to make adjustments per my instructions. In addition, when I see him on Tuesday, I will be “armed” with the manufacturers’ physician dosing instructions. You must be well informed in the event you too get a Doctor who is looking for a house payment by keeping you on Sub for a long time, and making you come back every few weeks for a fee of course!

This documentation allows for three Medically Supervised Opiod Withdrawal schedules and a long term maintenance dose as follows:

1. A short term 5-8 day Fixed Medical Withdrawal
2. A short term 10-21 day Flexible Medical Withdrawal
3. A long term 21-30 day Flexible Medical Withdrawal
4. A long term Maintenance dose (which is his ‘’preferred way” to do this, as it maximizes his profitability.

My plan is to be on 4mg Suboxone for two weeks (approx) then beginning a slow taper off the Suboxone. I must mention that typically the starting dose for Suboxone is between 16-32mg during the Inducting phase of the medication. I believe I am fortunate that 4mg controls my withdrawal just fine. Again, your mileage will vary.

Today is my 7th day of my Sub treatment and I’m feeling fine. After Tuesday, I will begin by taking 3mg a day for 4 days, then 2mg for 4 days and so on. If I were to feel any discomfort, I will “bump” up the dose by 1mg. You must remember that this is a long acting, partial opiod antagonist, meaning it has stays in the body for 3 days and each drop you make will take at least 3 days to “feel” the difference if indeed there is any. The slower the better is what I’ve read.

Also, Reckitt Benckiser, the manufacturer of the medication, has a fantastic program that employs nurses whom are trained on Suboxone treatment and are available for any questions you may not get the answers from your MD, especially if you found a “bad” MD like I evidently have. The people at Reckitt Benckiser have confirmed that 4mg is indeed a relative low dose to become stabilized on, however not unheard of which made me feel much better. In addition, they also agreed and have unfortunately heard of many MD’s that do not follow the instructions recommended by the manufacturer and indeed may be out for the cash only.

That being said, I hope this helps with anybody in my shoes, and I encourage any questions. I’d be happy to answer them to the best of my ability and wish me luck! I’ll keep you posted.

Take care,
-SKB

Go Giants!

Hi there NYGIANTS (Go Cowboys!), sorry, I had to get that in there to level the playing field. Your post is encouraging. I have been playing with the idea of going "cold turkey" off my Norco's too, but everytime I try, I start feeling very edgy and get NO sleep. I really want off. I thought that since I took a relatively low dose, 2 to 3 a day, that I would have it easy. Not so. I have to say I don't think it will be as hard as it is for some, but still no walk in the park. I have a question for you, did you get anything to help you sleep? And what exactly is Suboxone and how does it make you feel? I am thinking about going to my family doc for the Sub, but I am not sure if it has to be a specialized physician. I would love any feedback you have. Thanks!

Yes, I to would like to know what suboxone is. I have had narco's with no problem. At one point in my life I was taking vicodine for 9 months. I had no problems, as soon as the pain issue was over i just stopped. No W/D. That was about 15 years ago. And I know every one is different. Now I find that I can't take vicodine as it makes me very sick to my stomach. The Narco's do not bother my stomach. Giants, did you get the Narco's from your doctor, or where you able to find a place that on line? Hope all works out well for you, and everything goes as you have planned.

Hey Doodlegirl...yeah..nice game against your Cowboys...ugg..what a day that was. Anyway..to answer some of your questions, I have Xanax for sleep, and it was approved by my Sub doc. They typically will not give you a Benzo with Sub, as it has proven fatal in combination, however almost always when the Suboxone was injected and then a high dose of Benzo was taken in conjunction. That said, you can take a sleeping pill like Rozerem or the other non-hyptonics while on suboxone..you'd have to check with your doc. As for your dose..honestly...you could tough that out yourself. I don't think you are a candidate for Suboxone treatment, and I think that if you asked your personal doc, he would tell you the same. In addition, Suboxone needs to be prescribed by a Doctor who has taken a class and become certified to script the medication, so chances are your Primary MD doesn't have that certification. I am going thru my old pain management doctor to get off these pills, as his practice was the one who put me on them in the first place after my accident. If you are only taking 3 a day....just cut back...and tough out the 3 days of the Hydro Flu you'll have. Good luck to you, and if you really feel you can't do that, then by all means get an appointment with a Suboxone doctor..and see what he or she says.

Bearsfan:

Suboxone is a partial antagonist which means it sort of "tricks" your brain into thinking its opiod receptors are full. I know that probably is the most minimalistic explanation of the drug, check out Suboxone.com or google it. There is a wealth of information out there that will give you the proper definition of the way it works and what it is. I would get my medication from my pain management MD and from OCS's, however that business I'm afraid is going to go away pretty soon due to the new laws.

That said..you never know..I mean it's a huge business and it has helped many people in need so perhaps they will find a way to operate after the law kicks in. This was just the time for me to stop...and deal with my pain in different ways other than taking large amounts of opiates. I can't be on those medications for the rest of my life, and fortunately i don't have to. There are people who must be on opiates probably for their entire lives due to their pain issues. Everyone has a different pain problems, some more chronic than others.

-SKB

Oh and doodlegirl,

Suboxone took away any and all withdrawal symptoms in 30 minutes. That is not to say that there will not be some form of w/d after coming off of Suboxone, however from what I've read, and heard from many, many people, the withdrawal from Suboxone, if not taken for a long period of time (in other words..don't get addicted to Suboxone) that the w/d is much easier than Hydro withdrawal. Now...I'll be the judge of that in about 3 weeks when I come off it. I have a feeling that I will be fine, as I'm on a very low dose of Suboxone, and I'm lucky in that regard. People who seem to have the most difficulty or say that the w/d from Suboxone is hard, are people who have been on it for a long period of time, and at a high dose to begin with. Hope that helped, and I'll keep people posted on my progress. I hope that the w/d is easier than the Hydro, but more importantly for some people, (not myself, as I never "craved" the hyrdo) it eliminates the "craving" for opiates. That is where some people have difficulty. They go thru the w/d of opiates only to find the craving too much...and they go back to them...It is a useful tool for some.

-SKB

This is a GREAT place to look for information about Suboxone/Subutex.

http://www.naabt.org/

Also, I might add, that I've been a member of this board for about a year and a half, and I've posted many, many times. I have no intention of leaving the friends I've made here, quite the opposite. I'm only posting this for people who want to know what it is really like to be on Suboxone...as I'm going thru it now. I will be honest, and I'll tell it like it is. No BS, so sugar coating. Right now I'm doing perfect. But only time will tell.

-SKB

good for you giants!i was hoping to do the same,but what do you take for pain.sometimes i just hurt so bad i cant function.i waould love to not have to take these stupid pills.i feel like a slave.but i dont know if im a slave to the pills or a slave to the pain,or maby alittle of both.good luck!i am so proud of you.

Hi Ski,

Sure hope this goes well for ya. And I'm glad you're willing to post your experience. With the future uncertain, it helps for ppl to know of their options.

And I'd sure hope you wouldn't leave us!

2C

I have posted to this one way too many times. Just a quick, casual observation, (anyone wanting more detailed info. can PM me)

My Pain Management Doc. was/is a terrific, intelligent and commpassionate professional in most ways, never saw him lose his poise and quiet demeanor...not until I mentioned Suboxone "therapy". He became VERY agitated. He made it quite clear that he is adamently against these "certified" treatment Docs, and the medication itself...

Doc. are however, subject to the same human bias as us all, and he could well be wrong, I know this treatment has worked for many folks.

As I said, if you want more info on his posistion on this treatment let me know, my responses may take a couple of days however...

Good luck to all!

Skb~ Good wishes and much luck to you. I think it's great that you are trying to do what's best for you and willing to share your experiences with everyone here.
Hang in there...and if you need a laugh let me know....I have lots of funny videos stored here somewhere.

Well, SKB, I am very happy you have committed to doing this. I know you have had many fits and starts before. I think when I thought you would need some "outside" help for sure is when you came here months ago and was inquiring about tapering with 120 left. A little bell went off in my head (they go off all the time in my head ) and I thought, this isn't going to work for our friend, SKB. Plus the fact that you took them just during one part of day set off another bell ( , what's with the dang bells?) that, even though you had pain issues, you weren't taking them primarily for your pain. So I think getting professional help was the best thing you could have done. Three cheers!

I just have a couple of observations...take em if you like, totally reject them if you like. You won't hurt my feelings at all. I know we discuss all sorts of "remedies" and personal experiences here on the board. Some have been successful and some not. But I would think, going into this experience, I would try to follow as closely as I could the doctor's regimen. First, I wouldn't try to self medicate with other medications without your doctor's knowledge. I am happy that your doctor prescribed you the xanax, rather than you just augmenting it on your own. And I fully realize you want to be on this routine but for the least amount of time. It also sounds like you have thoroughly researched it. But, at least in the beginning, I would try to place your trust with the doctor and not ascribe in him or her any bad motives. There may be some real experiential and clinical reasons he/she wants you to take a certain dosage for a given period of time. In other words, try to stop self-diagnosing, prognosticating, and treating yourself and truly place yourself in the hands of the professional. I don't mean blind obedience. But if you are uncomfortable or plan to deviate from his/her course of action, thoroughly discuss it with him. The motivation may not be greed as the reason they want to treat you as suggested. I know you said the doctor is the one that got you into taking narcotic pain relievers to begin with. However, I think you would admit, you didn't follow the plan either. I doubt the dosing instructions were to take 6 to 8 a day only in the evenings.

I am with everyone here that really wants you to succeed SKB. I, like most of us here, have come to get to know you through your posts here. You really seem like one hell of a nice, concerned and genuinely giving person. I am rooting for you not to fail this time. You remind me a little of myself. I just don't do things the way others have planned for me. But there are times we have to surrender, at least a little. I think you can do it, my friend. I think putting this behind you once and for all will be what is best for you. I wish you God-speed.
PB

quote:

I am with everyone here that really wants you to succeed SKB. I, like most of us here, have come to get to know you through your posts here. You really seem like one hell of a nice, concerned and genuinely giving person. I am rooting for you not to fail this time. You remind me a little of myself. I just don't do things the way others have planned for me. But there are times we have to surrender, at least a little. I think you can do it, my friend. I think putting this behind you once and for all will be what is best for you. I wish you God-speed.

PB said EXACTLY what I wanted to say so I decided not to change one word. Well except I will sign it Ms. Mag.

PB, please forgive me for plagiarism.

NYG,

There are many different withdralwal regimes that are mostly pain free, symtom free. I really believe this is the way instead of laying in you bed for 3 or 4 days in pools of you own sweat and bone-rattling and skin crawls.

I did it this way once, and I must say that was the most painful 3 or 4 days in my life. There are also "accelerarated" methods that involve strong opoid antagonists and HEAVY tranquilizers. This type MUST be done under the close supervion of a dotor, but you can be detoxed in 12 hours. If you are in a hurry and you have the green...go for it!

Glad you detoxed successfully and are felling well. God bless you man!

Wayne

Wayne,
Just remember, I recently began this program, and my intention is to post my story about suboxone...I'm hoping it will be less traumatic and difficult, and more successful than cold turkey, as that is what it is designed to do. That being said, if it IS difficult, or painful or the worst thing ever, I'm going to tell you as well. I'm just a guinea pig right now, and hopefully this PERSONAL experience will provide information, good OR bad to people who would like it.

I hear from people like Davids' MD, whom is adamantly opposed to this treatment, and evidently gets incensed at even the thought of putting someone on Suboxone. So I want to tell people about My PERSONAL experience, I most certainly hope David's MD is incorrect in his views as I'm turning to this program as a last resort.

FYI...today was 4mg in the AM as usual, and I feel fine. I'll keep you posted.

-SKB

NYG - Thank you for your feedback. I have to admit, however, that the thought that I would not qualify since I only take 30 mg of Norco a day scares the begeebers out of me. I may only take a low dose, but I've taken that dose non-stop for almost 3 years. I want off BAD! REAL BAD...sorry for the "yelling", but I am tired of being a slave to it. I want so badly to be a good example to my son, who is recovering from addiction himself. He doesn't know that I am still taking the pills, but I do and I feel like such a hypocrite! Please, if anyone out there has advice, help me. I'll be creating a new post asking the same thing just because I am so desperate to get off, but I work full-time, so I can afford to have the WD's. Thanks for any additional insight!