hi guys, i went to my first appt with my suboxone doctor this morning. after my initial evaluation and medical history, he decided that i was a good candidate for sub. he then told me that before i started i would need to taper down to 100mg of hydro a day. i am currently taking around 300mg. he said if i started at any higher that i would have severe withdrawls because the sub would not be enuf to mask them. my question is: has anyone heard of this before? i swear that i have heard from other members that they started their treatment at the mid 200mg and higher level. i am SOOOO disappointed. if i were able to taper to 1/3 of what i am taking, i wouldnt need him in the first place. anyone with personal experience please post or PM me and let me know at what dose you started treatment at and whether or not you had withdrawls and to what severity. thanks for the advice. everyone here has been so helpful!!
that's not right. that is the whole point of sub.if i could have tapered i would have just tapered all the way. if i had hydro i took it, that simple. i was taking almost that much hydro, probably 250 mg a day when i went on sub. they started me at 16 mg. they told me that you would get wds if you took the sub while you still had hydro in you, so you had to be in wds to start it and then you would be fine. it doesn't matter how much hydro you were taking, just as long as you are in wd when you take your first sub. personally, my doc didn't want me to take any hydro for 48 hours before i came in but i knew people who had taken their last dose the night before and i knew if i did that too that i would be in wd plenty by 10 am the next day. so i just took my last dose at 7 pm the night before and told him what he wanted to hear...if i were you i would just tell him i tapered but i wouldn't do it...i'm not recommending this, i just don't think you have to if you don't want to. the best thing would be to find a different doc but i know that is hard to do, so if you have to stick with this one you can do what he says or don't do it but tell him you did. i don't think tapering will affect anything. people tend to need the same dose of sub whether they are on 100 mg of hydro or more. yes, the more you take the more you will need but the max dose of sub is 32 mg and most don't go that high, it's more of that dose in heroin addicts. i honestly don't think your doc would know you didn't taper unless you told him. they will keep giving you sub until you are out of wd and it's different for each person so he can't really say he knows you didn't taper by how much sub you need. you also have to realize that sub is much stronger than hydro so a low dose is really enough. and the more you take doesn't really help more, you won't feel the high so you only want to take as much as you have to. my doc gave me 2 mg and then in an hour another 2 mg and then i was ok enough to leave and he told me to take another 2 mg in an hour, after that last 2 mg, so 6 mg total in 3 hours i felt great. make whatever decision is best for you but don't worry about what the doc says. some docs aren't that familiar with addiction even though they are treating it and some, it seems, just want to make you suffer some even though that defeats the purpose of the sub. i guess they think it just shouldn't be that easy for us addicts. some seem to only do it for the money. don't let that stop you, sub is a wonderful drug and you should do whatever you have to to get it. just don't think that you have to do everything your doctor says (as long as you don't let him know that!) now that i have written a book, i hope this helps some, pm me if you need to
I was taking at least 200mg of hydro per day for quite a while. I took about 210 mg. the day before I went to see doctor & had taken at least 40 to 50 mg. that very day. I took the Subtex SL as soon as I got it. I had no withdraw at all. I only needed 8 mg. per day. If you take to much sub it will make you feel odd. Hydro has a very short 1/2 life. It leaves system very fast. I think some doctors treat hydro like Oxy. This is just my personal experience. I am not a doctor. I have never taken Hydro at all after recieving Bup. You need to get rid of all the Hydro you have. It will not work anyway with the Bup. It is like a miracle. Let the Bup. work its magic. Get rid of Hydro after you get the Bup. Good luck, Bossman
thank you so much for that info. i was hoping to hear that from just one person. that is my plan entirely. i will just tell him that i tapered to where he wants me to be. i do plan to as much as possible because i know it will make it easier for me the lower the dose im on, but by 20 pills-thats all but impossible as far as im concerned. if i could "easily do that" as he said-i could "easily" stop taking the other 10. he scheduled my doseage today and is calling the only pharm in town that carries it to make sure they have enuf and i will take 2 of the 8mg tabs a day with 2 or 3 of the 2mg to hold me over in between. that is guaranteed from what he said. thats enuf, from what ive heard and read EVERYWHERE else to stop even the worst withdrawls from oxy and heroine! as far as getting another doc to do it- this is the only one local. the next closest is 30 miles away and i drive 20 miles in the opposite direction to take my daughter to school. that would require a 50 mile a day trip to go to a place that my insurance wont pay for. the doc i saw today is also going to claim it on my insurance as depression instead of a drug rehabilitation-he is a psychologist-which will keep it off any future records as me being an "addict". did you have any withdrawls, no matter how small, on the dose you were on? what should i expect? thanks again so much for confirming what i had heard and KNEW was the case. anyone else with any first hand experiences please let me know.
I have'nt been to see a sub doc yet but i called months ago to see how the process worked and she said i'd have to take a urine test before I could start on the sub. I'm sure all docs are different but this one said I'd have to go 48 hours with no opiates before she'd give me anything. Just my experience and I hope this stuff works when I finally make the move to get my life back. Anyone else with info on this topic would be a great help to me and I'm sure many others.
mrp, my doc seems to be VERY strict but he is willing to start me after i have been off for 12 hours. i am going in early morning in the beginning of march and i have to take my last dose no later that 9 that evening before. he is requiring i see my primary doc and have a standard panel blood test to check my liver and other things but didnt say anything about a urine test until after i get stabilized on the sub-just to make sure im still not using i guess. i am pretty sure that with a urine test they can only detect that you are using-not how much. there may be a more expensive in-depth test to check for certain amounts but i dont think they do that.
Does it matter whether your on oxy or hydro as far as the length of time you have to wait before taking sub? Would I be much better off being on hydro when i start, as I go back and forth between the two? Maybe she said I had to wait 48 hours because I was taking oxy at the time. Not oxycontin but oxycodone (no time release). Thanks
Hi, I called to make an appt with the sub doctor they asked if I could come right then and I told them I had already taken 5 vicodin and that their website said I had to be in withdrawl. She said not to worry about it and come anyway. I was taking 20 of the 7.5/750 a day. I would have had to take a urine test but was unable to because I was on my period. (Sorry guys) Anyway, the dr gave me a days worth of meds to take home and said to take an 8mg when I first started to feel even the slightest withdrawl. I took it later that night and felt great! I started breaking the pill in half and taking 4mg in the am and 4mg in the pm for the first few days and I felt absolutely no withdrawls. Then I went down to 2mg for about 2 weeks and then 1mg and then tiny bits and then off. You will be surprised on how such a small dose of sub can go a long way. Good luck with your detox.
thanks for all the info guys. i thought my last chance was gone. mrp-it would be better for you to start the sub while taking the hydro only IF you arent taking more of it to compensate for its weakness compared to the oxycodone. the oxy is alot stronger than hydro so if you can taper down to just hydro and take the same amount (mgs)of it as you would have the oxy it will definantly be easier. the less you take of anything the easier it will be to stop.
thanks for all the help. This stuff sounds like a miracle. I'm relieved to know I wont have to go through the misery of cold turkey again. I'll post when I get up the nerve to make an appointment.
I found that making the appointment was the hardest part. It was very hard to take that step and then even once I had the appointment it was hard to make myself go. I was so scared, what if he didn't give me the sub right away? What if it didn't work or if he wouldn't give me enough to feel better. I thought that I might still be in wds and if I was then I couldn't even take any hydro cause the sub would block it. All those fears, I was on the phone with my sister all night, asking her if I should do this. I was nervous about having to drive to the doc who was 45 minutes away, in an area I dont know, in wd. That said, it was probably the best decision I ever made. I felt so good on it, so good knowing that I wasn't worrying about or counting pills anymore. I could pay my bills. I wasn't on a four hour time table to get things done when I felt the best. Make the call, you will be so glad you did!
I believe it would be better on the Hydro. It has a much shorter 1/2 life. Being on the Oxy to close to taking the sub could trigger bad withdraws. The Bup. kicks off the other opiads attached & this causes withdraw
Does anyone know any websites that have info on this drug? I've been in inpatient detox and it sucks, plus the nurses were very mean. I wasn't even making trouble or carrying on. But they wouldn't listen to me when I start having problems after they gave me a "patch" (don't recall the name of the med, but it wasn't what you all are talking of) and it was suppost to help with the w/d, well I started to have an allergic reaction to it and they basically told me that it was just the w/d starting and to deal with it. Well I took the patch off myself and demanded benadryl (which they finally gave me) plus they already had me on 20 mg of valium, so I finally was able to sleep. And it was after all an allergic reaction they finally agreed (I only had to suffer really bad for a while for them to see it, freaking idiots) I ended up walking out after a day, due to them not letting me call my daughter to check on her, she was promised I would call after school, even by the councelor. I detoxed myself going cold turkey for the most part and my family Dr. gave me a few valium after I told him what happened, he knew how close my daughter and I are. I don't take a huge amount of hydro, but probably more than I should 4 or 5 pills of norco a day max, but when they finally figure out why I'm in pain so much, I'll need a plan to get off the hydro, eventually I hope. Figure I may as well research my options, since it sounds like this other med is very helpful, I just fear I won't have a problem with it when the time comes.
sounds like youve had a roouhg time of it. did your doc not offer you any other means of detox before inpatient. thats seems to be a last resort. pretty much for people on very high doseages. at 4 or 5 a day, i think they should have offered something a little less dramatic first. i dont mean to undermine how hard it is to stop taking that amount, though. from all i have seen sub is a great alternative to what you have been through and methadone. look on thefederal mental health and substance abuse website-i think it is www.samhsa.org and you should be able to find a locator that will guide you to a doc in your area that will help you. i am using a psychologist but there are methadone clinics that can help as well. good luck and PM me if you need to talk!
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