A few members know that years ago I tried Kraton, my experience was not favorable,However, many members do use it with great results, especially for the relief of withdrawal symptoms, and some apparent narcotic effect. Folks who understand, the action and benifits better than I are more than welcome to jump in and make corrections as needed.
1. In many countries where Kratom is grown, it
is illegal for the natives to use.
2. Care needs to be made purchasing Kratom as
there are some weak products or copy-cat
products being sold as Kratom. MEMBERS HERE REPORT A CALM, RELAXED, FEELING, AND A RELIEF OF WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS There have been reports of short periods of mild euphoria

3. Prolonged use of Kratom has been known to
blacken teeth, and tongues of native,
chronic users
4. Kratom will cause TOLERANCE with
prolonged, frequent use.

A QUICK PROFILE OF KAVA
Kava is prepared as drink by many Polonesian people, it usally takes 20-30 minutes to take effect and the effect will last anywhere from 2 and one half hours to eight hours. Servings are usually taken about every 15 minutes, (usually up to four servings) but sometimes as many as six. There are reports of Kava lasting as long as two days after ingestion, effects are noted as, mental clarity, patience, and a calm sense of acceptance Effects of Kava have been compared to alcohol, or a large dose of valium...The usually sequence of onset is usually, talkative, and social behavior, clear thinking, and improved cognition relaxed muscles, and a VERY EUPHORIC SENSE OF WELL BEING When caffiene is used in conjunction with Kava, one will experience significant mental alertness. A much more POTENT drink may cause sleepiness, but, unlike an alcohol sleep, there is no hangover effect, and since the consumer has had such a restful sleep, users awake vibrant and stimulated. Unlike Kratom, or opiod meds. Kavalactones are oil based so the more often used over periods of time, it builds up in the system, and this the Euphoric effect is actually heightened. There are NO REPORTS OF KAVA ADDICTION and as mentioned, tolerance is not a problem, in moderate use, it will improve memory, and cognition. LARGE CONSUMPTION MAY CAUSE A SIMILAR [B]EFFECT AS ALCOHOL And Kava DUI have been noted in Utah, Ca. and Hawaii, most of these Kava "DUI's" have ben acquitted as laws do not cover, Kava comsumption.
I HAVE NO PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH KAVA FOR WITHDRAWAL, FOR OPIODS, OR EVEN FOR I'S OTHER DESIRABLE EFFECTS, I MAKE NO CLAIMS AS TO IT'S THERAPEUTIC VALUE AS A BOTANNICAL

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ~David~,

Never really heard of it, Thanks David. Another excellent beneficial post. Appreciate.

So I wonder about the Kava it sounds like a great alternative. I wonder in what form would one take it, there are so many different products out there.

Northern Girl;
My mentor and Shamanic instructor DID use Kava regularly, I just never got around to trying it, it has been around for decades and is legal, I was researching Entheogens last night as I have an important drumming ritual this weekend, and seeing the Kava piqued my interest.
On the South Pacific Islands, the natives drink it from coconut bowls, since less potant brews mixed with a caffiene based beverage is a stimulant, (as well as a "feel good" effect) my guess is that it is drunk with a tea of sorts. I assume "Vaults of Erowid" "I Shaman" or, www.bouncingbearbotanicals.com may have further info. I will tell you that Americans have been drinking Kava based, "Grog" (Kava mixed with water and NOT real tasty) for centuries. it is a staple of many seafaring men. BTW: "Bouncing Bear" now has live Kratom plants available, as well as a potent Indonesian Kratom. I have ordered Entheogens from BB. Very reliable, good folks there. As mentioned, there is a direct link from Bouncing Bear to Erowid, who also has a reputation for REAL bona-fide Kratom.
HELLO TO ISLE! Hope you didn't mind my gentle coaching time-out!

Hi David,
This is a total new one on me. I am gonna go check out the site you posted. But do you know if this is something you can buy at a health food store. we have a big grocer type store here, "Wild Oats &...," (don't know the rest of the name), But they even have a phamacy type place there, all holonagistic, (SP?). Organic stuff... It's about an hour from me. So I can't just run out & check them out. But do you think this kinda place would carry this? Or is this something like Kratom, you have to get strickly off the net? Sounds like something I'd really like to check into. I'll go check it out based on info you've given. But please, keep us updated with any new info you get on it. Thanks for the good idea. I'm always on the look out for a 'healthier' alternative.
2C

2Cool,
I haven't looked for the product at a health food store, but since this is a legal, healthful beverage, it may be stocked. Often, if I need a rare botannical for some such ritual ceremony, I will have my health food store order it. Many health food staff are well informed on MANY botannicals, and might lead you to a local store. Get to know the more "Metaphysical" types who sometimes own/or clerk health food stores, some of them have sources for gorgeous, colorful and rare mushrooms, that make beautiful "Ornatmental" additions to a humid, mini-hot house.

Thanks David....something well worth checking into. Like the non-addictive idea.

2C

Kava can be found at health food stores. Kava capsules can be found at Walgreens, Walmart.

Do you think the capsules would ba as effective as a liquid form of it?
2C

Theres the Chipmunk, alway's in the nick of time...I would check carefully though, might be a (genuine) Kava rip off, or only contains tiny amounts mixed with filler.

Capsules were mentioned, but apparently the ingestion mode of choice are drinking from the coconut shells, (they have storytelling circles since everyone feels nice and chatty and they go on for hours) You should consider trying to do what some of these ancient cultures do sometime, it could lead to a "Peak Experience" and you don't have to tithe for it.

I highly doubt drinking it from a coconut vs my coffee cup it going to make a bean of differance. I have taken kava capsules and never felt the goodness that David speaks of. I do believe in the stuff though, I believe in most alternatives. I also believe drinking it would definitly have a more powerful effect, have never seen kava tea, maybe can be made from capsules? David you make me blush with all your ritual talk and your wisdom of such things, thanks for your light.

Everyone who reads this will surely be at the store tonight getting their kava, please read first about the effects it may have on the LIVER. I am pretty sure I read somewhere to be careful on the mgs of kava and liver process.

DAVID,.
What was your experience with kratom, I would love to hear it. I bought a small amount a few months ago but I have been to chicken-****.
I have read many peoples accounts about thier experiences and I wonder if mine could be that good. I worry that It would feel trippy like LSD do not want that effect. Before kids, house, hubby, dog I did my drug experimenting and had a few bad trips. I would not like to relive those days again. So this is why I ask you, I have come to trust and appreciate your posts.

Thank you for the kind words Chipmunk, I needed to hear that today! First off, I did not use Kratom as an adjunct to a withdrawal regimen, I was exploring ways to diminish pain, and my generalised anxiety disorder. The product was a "Super" Kratom, supposedly from Thailand, I made the horrible mistake of mixing it with water, the stuff is nasty unless you mask it with a tart drink, or other stronger, less offensive tasting beverage. I had possibly a few moments of "euphoria" but because of my frequent visits to other planes of existance via my drumming rituals, I can access altered states quickly, thus, I feel that I was simply programmed for a euphoric feeling that past rapidly, pain did not diminish, I felt neither pleasant (save for a slightly qweezy tummy) nor umpleasant. It was a non-event for me.HOWEVER, I AM THE EXCEPTION HERE AND NOT THE RULE, I KNOW OF CLOSE TO A DOZEN REGULARS HERE WHO SWEAR BY KRATOM, YOU WON'T "TRIP" ON IT, IT ISN'T A HALLUCENIGENIC, YOU WILL BE TOTALLY FUNCTIONAL, AND IN A NORMAL STATE OF MIND. I apologise I cannot PM you members who use Kratom regularly, that would be unethical. However, I have no doubt that if the thread on this remains a few day's, an experienced Kratom user will address your post, I have been here several years, not one post of anyone with a so-called, "Bad trip". It's not that kind of a botannical.
HTH!